PEGI Won't Budge on Balatro's Ridiculously Bloated European Age Rating

@Daleaf Yeah it took Battle Front 2 doing real scummy loot boxes , before the UK goverment got involved, shows how out of touch Euro ratings are.

It's almost as if a very wealthy company like EA has found a way to persuade PEGI to keep its age rating low.....wonder what it could be 😂

PEGI has been the most ineffective organisation I can remember and has been for many decades - I remember being in their offices a long time ago and they were rubbish then. They were smaller of course, but just as rubbish.

Edit: It was actually ELSPA whos offices I remember being in and having meetings - PEGI came later. I still have the same opinion of PEGI though, and these decisions demonstrate why

"The rating board appears to be quite inconsistent when it comes to how gambling affects an age rating. While some gambling games do have the 18 rating, others don't; Prominence Poker, Texas Holdem Poker: Pokerist, Pure Hold'em World Poker Championship, and The Four Kings Casino and Slots each have a PEGI age rating of 12. "

This is the really infuriating part. Stupid rules are frustrating, but inconsistency in how you apply those rules is inarguably unfair.

PEGI are an absolute joke, how can simulated gambling be enough to warrant an 18 rating but literal gambling and predatory microtransactions aren't?

All I can say to this:

common sense is a marvelous thing!

If you have a kid who is interested in this I'd say go for it.

There is far more to be gained in comfort with numbers, logical thinking, puzzle solving and general fun than there is risk of them turning into a card shark!

I mean... I kind of see it from both sides, and as a Poker player (IRL) I can see how Balatro could be seen as somewhat of a 'gateway drug' into the real world of poker playing and gambling. HOWEVER - I absolutely believe that ratings need to be reviewed for other games, example in case FIFA series, where real loot box mechanics exist.

The 18 cert probably hasn't harmed Balatro sales though, with the notoriety and additional publicity likely facilitating some great exposure.

On a side-note... I am curious to how many Balatro players/owners are actually under the age of 18? I wasn't sure if this game would be able to permeate the sub-18 crowd, who I'd imagine are more bound by live-service/annual release titles like Fortnite, COD, FIFA etc??

Any games with microtransactions should be 18+

I dont know this game too well at all, but from what I read in the article, maybe a slightly more common sense approach is needed as relates to this game.

PEGI gave Astro-Bot a 7, meaning anyone the age of 7 or above can play it, and that game has a literal Casino level with slot machines in it that the player can use. By PEGI's own logic, wouldn't that mean that children could "transfer that skill" from the in-game slot machines to real life ones?

@Rich33 There are no microtransactions in the game. You can’t spend extra money on it even if you wanted to. The DLC card packs (with cosmetically themed cards added as options later just for fun, based on game like The Witcher, Dave the Diver, Among Us, etc) are free.

There is “in game currency” to buy card packs that are part of the gameplay loop, similar to buying upgrades in literally any other game out there. The currency is effectively XP to be spent on the store to strengthen your run. The currency could easily be called “XP” or “Souls” or “Blood Echoes” or “Gil” or any other of the thousands of similar in-game currency that exist in every RPG.

There is zero gambling or betting in this game. It's a deck builder with a poker mechanic.

The logic here of the PEGI board is puzzling. “Transfer to a real-life game of Poker”… well, I get it but at the same time I just don’t think Poker is the scourge we should be worried about. Like others have mentioned, the same logic doesn’t apply to other casino games and betting mini-games that are often included in a video game. The veiled gambling components of other games (like gacha mechanics) are more likely to get kids accustomed to a gambling addiction, I would suspect.

Furthermore, for those who have played Balatro and who also play real-world poker know that the similarities of the two end at the perceived value of the different hands (pair, two pair, full house, flush, etc.). In fact, reliance on one’s experience with poker will get you beat a lot in Balatro. You have to unlearn some of your poker tendencies to be successful.

Other than that common terminology of the hands (and other terms like “ante”, “blind”, “joker”, etc), playing Balatro is nothing like pulling up to a Poker table in real life.

That +3 of the EA game is bought by the company itself, there is no doubt about that.

Now I want a petition to make fifa a 18+ game

@Th3solution
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying - the devs called out the low age limits on other games and I was stating that I think all games irrespective of their content should have an 18+ if they contain MTX (or a currency purchased by 'real' money for that matter).
On the other hand, in games like this (going on what is stated in the article) with no MTX, a more common sense rating is needed ie any game with loot boxes etc should automatically be 18+, but this game could be lower.

PEGI argues that it deserves the 18 because it teaches how to play poker hands, knowledge which could be "transferred to a real-life game of poker". 🤦🏽‍♀️ By this argument, 99% of ALL games should be rated 18. Mario teaches kids how to effectively jump on people's heads. Any game with weapons teaches kids how to harm others. Pac Man teaches that biting's ok. And we here in the US thought the ESRB was bad! 🤪

On the surface, it seems this is pure, unbridled corruption at play.

There's a certain audacity to their denial of Localthunk's request (in how he and the media frames it) that pisses me off in particular.

I have played a lot of this game on my IPhone and where is the gambling part? Is it just because it used Poker hands?!

Did they even play the game?!

@Rich33 I hear you. I tend to agree with you although I haven’t thought long and hard about it (games with MTX needing a mature rating, that is). I definitely agree on the ‘common sense approach’ needed for this and other games. I didn’t intend my reply to you there to be a counter point or a dispute, rather just responding with info about this game and its lack of MTX. I now see you are more referring to FIFA, Fortnite, Genshin, etc needing to be 18+, independent of what’s going on in Balatro.

I guess what PEGI is implying though is that they don’t care so much about MTX, rather they care about the content of the game and how it can affect young minds. That sounds good on paper, but it doesn’t pass the common sense implementation test, imho. The implication of gameplay “transferring into real life” is a slippery slope indeed, and one that has been debated since the inception of video games. But to your point, MTX are a relatively new threat which plagues modern gaming and has a relatively unharnessed effect on young (and old) people. I’d probably say it’s more nuanced than to do a blanket 18+ on every MTX game, but there definitely needs to be some kind of consistency with how they can be used and implemented.

I still believe the UK gov should never have ditched the decades-old familiar and trusted BBFC ratings on games for the weak PEGI system. Everyone in the UK knows the BBFC ratings as they’re on every DVD, at every cinema, on streaming apps etc. and they are legally binding. On the other hand, nobody takes the slightest notice of PEGI ratings.

Are all these ratings companies just becoming total ***** shows lately? There really needs to be an industry wide overhaul for all this, I know Australia has gotten strict with their ratings and the ESRB is oftentimes questionable.

So a game with people shooting each other is lower rated than a virtual game of cards despite 'teaching you how to shoot someone in the head'. The world has gone crazy.

Families play card games at Christmas all around the world. Maybe all the parents need locking up.

Just art the game box with a giant arrow pointing at the PEGI rating with a message saying ‘Parents can ignore this’

@Th3solution
Ah - I get you.

I probably have a very strong negative opinion of MTX and in particular any that have a predatory nature:

• Those where there is an element of chance / luck (even if disclosed) - this is just gambling in my opinion.
• Those where there is a currency involved - made up example "buy this for 30 super crystals" where you would need to work out 30 super crystals costs £10.
  2 further points to this, which exacerbate the situation of currency: 1) where said currency isnt purchased in the standard amount spent on items eg you purchase in lots of 35 currency, but skins etc cost 30. 2) where there is a benefit of purchasing larger amounts of currency.

I will add though that I do understand there is a counter argument for currency in those cases where a parent can purchase an amount for a child as a reward for good behaviour eg on a weekly or monthly basis, and sometimes could be used as a learning tool for saving up.

I 100% agree with you that consistency across the board is needed. I just think that whole sections of the industry have become far too predatory.

On the other hand, I think game ratings for content can seem all over the place.
I will say, as an adult of a.. few... years, without kids of my own, I dont often look at age ratings, but when I do, or read articles like this, I often find them complete comedy.
There have been occasions I have seen an age rating of a game I know well, and wonder how on earth they came up with the rating they did - both ways, with the rating being far too low, or too high, with no common sense seemingly having been applied.

I also think as part of that, the 'message' of the game (including positive messages) needs to be more involved in the age rating, with maybe less emphasis on graphic violence/language as you get to the higher age limits.

From what I know / have read about this game it seems pretty tame.

As an interesting point, certain family / friends with children (and who know im into gaming) have at times been so disillusioned with the current system, that they have asked me if I have played a game their child is asking for / they are considering buying for their child, and what my opinion of it is.

Sadly EA and 2k have much deeper pockets.

@Rich33 Great discussion. I’m completely in agreement on the frequent predatory nature of MTX. In fact, I think I’m much more radical on it than most people because I even consider a lot of DLC, battle passes, and season passes as underhanded. In general, I avoid DLC. It is a microtransaction also. Now some DLC is clearly extra and “worth” paying for later, but some absolutely feels like it’s carved out of the game to be sold separately to get the complete experience. Preplanned DLC or expansions are usually a red flag for me. They are all ways to make a $70 game into a $100 or $120 game.

But that’s just my own little consumer quirks and I try to vote with (or without) my wallet as I see fit. As far as MTX affecting an age rating, that’s where things get more murky. The ratings are designed to protect minors, and if a Pokémon game had a very clear option of buying a downloadable character or power or whatever then I think that’s probably not harming anyone’s childhood. Probably. But when they deceive and hide it behind all the smoke and mirrors as you described there, it definitely needs to be called out in some way.

And I agree on the content rating inconsistency. According to PEGI, Balatro is as inappropriate for a 10 year old to play as GTA5, Dead Space, or Leisure Suit Larry. I think a lot of M-rated games are fine for a younger population, and T-rated games sometimes have questionable content for a 13 year old. The best way is for the parent to experience it themselves to judge, or have a trusted friend like you to consult.

@Th3solution
DLC is certainly a complex area, but I think if its pre planned you can at least see a price (provided they are very clear whether an edition or season pass includes all content) - im not wholly against a game priced over £70 given the dev costs of AAA games in certain cases, if their honest about it - at the end of the day its up to customers if they want to pay it.
In terms of age rating though I think this sort of thing is atm very distinct from (as you put it so well) the 'smoke and mirrors' or luck based purchases (which imo by their very nature are gambling).

In terms of content - 100% agree about a parent judging for themselves, or using a friend / family member for research - I would always give a sort of summary of the important parts to let them judge.
But I also think this shows a big weakness of the current system - its not always possible to have played a game or know someone who has, and Im just not sure the current system gives the info in a way that lets a parent judge for themselves.
A simple example - Game in question is a hypothetical currently 18+ REvil type game. No real moral issues, heros and villains are clearly defined. Bad language but not over the top, no hate. No gratuitous killing / hurting humans or animals, but there is significant gore / violence both with you killing monsters / zombies, and them killing you / humans, often quite graphically.
Hopefully that would at least help a parent judge for themselves. I dont know about Balatro, but i guess if you wrote something similar it would not scream 18+!

@Rich33 Lol, my response for a parent asking me hypothetically what’s a summary of the content for Balatro would be:
No voiced dialogue, no profanity, no violence, no combat or death, no scary or gruesome imagery, no sexual content. The game is exclusive images of playing cards and chips, numbers and text explaining the game, loosely based on poker where the playing cards are standard 52 card deck and a variety of jokers and enhancement card decks, one of which are Tarot cards which give a variety of abilities to make your hand better. Players try to use strategy to maximize scoring to get high scores with their hands as they build their decks with more enhancing power-up card combinations. Familiarity with poker is not a prerequisite. Being able to calculate, add and multiply in your head is definitely a plus though.
🤷🏻‍♂️
Or you can get little Timmy a game where he can virtually cut other people into pieces with a chainsaw or steal cars and get lap dances at the strip club with every third word of dialogue being a profanity. Same age rating. 😂

Maybe goverment should be involved if there's real gambling in games, it should be rated "Mature Only" if there's a real gambling on games.

@Th3solution
Sometimes I wish the people involved would read conversations like this - they might learn something or at least gain a different perspective!

@Rich33 You never know, my friend. 😄🍻

They don't have the money to bribe PEGI like EA does. It's BS

The game features Poker, Blackjack or equivalent, right? If that's the main core gameplay, it makes sense why they would be rated +18. EA FC are rated +3 because the core gameplay doesn't involve gambling for loot boxes. It's optional. In Balatro, it's not optional to play Poker, even if real money isn't involved, the theme is largely surrounded by Poker.

I understand the criticism, but it is what it is. You could replace it with a whimsical, colourful, rainbows loose version of russian roulette, PEGI will slap an +18 Age Rating so fast, you won't see the email confirmation.

So any driving game should be 18+, because it teaches you how to be the gateway driver for criminals.